Sunday, 19 April 2009

Is it here we stand?

Put on your prophetic hat and help me out with something. There were struggles in the early Church, stands in Reformation, scraps in the eighties and nineties and lots of fights in between. In reality, every generation has had to man up and contend.

Where do you think the next generation (those now in their 20s and 30s) will have to take a stand?

I want to write on Sola Panel about this - but I wanted to hear others thoughts first.

13 comments:

Craig Schwarze said...

Materialism is always a temptation for us in the west.

I also think there might be some interesting challenges in Sydney as the church shifts toward a non-white demographic.

Mark said...

The very nature of the gospel.

IFES is currently facing this threat in the name of “integral mission”. Though somewhat benign in title, this rebadging of Christian mission tends to subtly redefine the "gospel" as good words AND good works, i.e. works are not just the fruit of that gospel, but are rather an integral part of the gospel.

Hon said...

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for blogging - you've helped me set my gaze on God.

my 2 cents:

- Authority of the word and its interpretation.

Spoken to professing Christians who mangle the Scriptures in order to support their contemporary prophesying, human centred optimism, homosexuality, vegetarianism, freedom to use obscenities... Need to give time to see what the Scriptures actually say and then to sit under it.

Honoria

Di said...

Big number one:
* A desire to know and submit to God and his word being a problem for all generations!

Some other things that I think are of particular concern:
(let me say - my thoughts are NOT based on blogging experiences!)

Lack of basic comprehension reading skills (a personal struggle, but much more common now thanks to Post Modern education)

Dissociation of words from the intended meaning of the text

Fresh opinions and ideas valued over meaning/intention of the text – therefore difficult to evaluate what has been said by the speaker/writer and to interact rationally

Something outside the text, eg an analogy, illustration, story, opinion…., drives the meaning of the text, and often encourages the responder to create their own meaning because it’s so loose

Difficult to be rational when faced with critical evaluation from the responder - eg ‘what does the Bible say’ challenge is considered too intellectual or academic . Or irrelevant or boring. Or just plain rude!!

Valuing audience interest over truth


So in the end I suggest there are four key dangers:
* uncritical thinking (no fear of being wrong)
* not rightly handling the word of truth (and lack of Bible knowledge)
* lacking the courage to speak the truth especially if unpopular
* not willing to submit to God and to one another (respect, humility, wisdom)


(From an ‘oldie’ who constantly needs correction to a young’un)

Anonymous said...

Following on from Hon and Di, I think it's postmodernism.

I don't think we've barely begun to feel the effect of postmodernism on the church yet. The Emerging church in the US is the frontend of pomo theology getting down to tin tacks, but it hasn't hit here in any way, as far as I can tell.

I think postmodernism is going to ravage and revitalise the church, just as modernism did.

Modernism caused centuries of problems (still ongoing) by elevating human reason above faith in God, among other things, but it also gave us a whole raft of new tools, in terms of exegesis, theology and apologetics. And made Christians sharper about what they believe (theology is always formed polemically, right?).

Postmodernism, imho, will have a similar effect. It's going to challenge the way we read the Bible, think about God himself, think about how to express truths and explain the gospel, do church and lots of other things.

Some effects will be damaging and undermine orthodox Christian belief, while I think others are going to breathe new life into the way we think about our faith and our Lord, perhaps less tied to the rationalism of the Enlightenment.

It's exciting and not a little bit daunting.

Oh, and as a prophet, I should add that it's expedient for one man to die on behalf of the people.

Brett Peatman said...

In my opinion one issue is that greater sexual promiscuity amongst the broader community has become increasingly normalised. We will continue to see this reflected both in and out of the church. Holiness will continue to be an issue and will lead to significant challenges, both with churched and unchurched people. It seems to me that in conservative churches this is still an issue that is not handled well. We will continue to see ministers fall in this area and too many churches pretend that this is not that important or that everything is fine when it is not.

Unknown said...

@ Craig, Mark, Hon, Di, Ben, Brett

Wow! Great comments. I think we need to grow in self awareness and try and see the issues that lay ahead. We should not rest on the laurels of past victories or naive optimism about the future.

Materialism and sexuality are massive blind spots. Brett, sexuality screams at us a big issue - but is also becoming normalised! The more we reach more and more broken people - the more this becomes an issue. I'm glad you raised this issue. Have you written on it?

Materialism is so much harder to detect. How on earth do we fight it when it is in our own hearts so deeply!!! It is easy to be superficial. Change must happen from the elders and pastors of churches. Any ideas Craig?

Hey Mark. I have never heard of "integral mission". I assume they are not just saying that we do good works because we are Christian. It is more than that. What is AFES doing about it? Are you going to blog about it?

Hon, we've met before haven't we? I think that you and Di are on the same page. Very scary stuff. Everyone wants to claim God's word, but lots of people just want to *use* it rather than sit under it. Many people just aren't rational anymore in discussions about the Bible. Di and Hon. The hardest question. How do you think we fight against it?

Ben. Loved your last line. I think your analysis of postmodernism is great because it is a warning without just being reactionary! It's a blessing and a curse. You think we are going to be hit a lot harder in the future - where will the issues to fight be?

PS. It goes without saying that you don't have to answer these questions because life is short. I will not be offended - but I am interested in the answers.

mark said...

Hi Andrew,

Great question!

I'm in agreement with Di and Hon that Scripture needs guarding (Inerrancy, Perspecuity - these need to be communicated to the younger generations).

One other thing I've been thinking about lately is how the next generation might want to affirm embodiment and tradition.

My guess is that there's a reaction against any theology which doesn't affirm embodiment, and this plays out in the resurgence of interest in Christian movements which affirm embodiment and experience. Generationally, I think it's interesting to note that trends like cutting, extreme sports, wild-living, pentecostalism, buddhist spirituality all seem to reinforce the idea that "this really is real" in a world which is fast becoming disembodied (perhaps due to the cyber-life!).

And tradition. My other guess is that the younger generation's skepticism against objective truth and propositions in language (Derrida), grand meganarratives (Lyotard) and power-structures (Foucault) will cause some to seek "authentic" (what an elastic word!) Christianity in the church's ancient faith. Robert. E. Webber's written about this, John Milbank's Radical Orthodoxy is on about this, and a whole lot of emerging church thought tries to recapture this. I'm not as confident that this will be a major impact on the next generation as embodiment (above), but it might be worth thinking about how we link back into tradition?

Anyway, there's some Monday morning thoughts! :)

Unknown said...

Hi Mark,

Pretty good thoughts for a Monday morning. I hear you on Scripture and tradition. As you say Scripture is going to need guarding, but embodiment ....

This is something I hadn't really thought about. I think I can see some of the dangers - in wanting to seek an increasing "ride" or experience. Yet something about embodiment seems really good - maybe because I'm trapped in the same yearning. Do you think it is only going to have a negative effect?

mark said...

G'day Andrew,

Totally agree, there certainly are some dangers in it. Personally, I think the main danger is that of a reactionary move which overemphasises it (but hey, we can overemphasise other things too right?!). But just as dangerous is too underemphasise it - after all, the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus surely put that one to rest!

Perhaps an interesting exercise would be to see how current services (liturgy) implicitly affirms or denies these sorts of things?

Actually, there's an interesting question - method and liturgy. How to devise liturgy for the next generation?

Hon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hon said...

Hi Andrew,

No, I don't think we've met. But I like your blog. And we might have mutual friends in Melbourne and Sydney. (I blog-hopped via Gordo.)

Haven't replied because I've been writing an essay on Christ and Fear in Hebrews (for Christology, but it turned out more like a big Gk exegetical). I hope that fact doesn't bias my answer but that it informs it.


> How do you think we fight against it?

The impact of recognising who God really is and how to treat his word should help.

Hebrews 12 is just amazing ~ A jaw-dropping and heart pounding passage. It contrasts Israel approaching Mt Sinai (v18-21) and Christians approaching Mt Zion (v22-29).

Israel is slammed for "refusing" God and his word (same word is used in v19 & 25). They did not heed God's word at their peril.

What's the antidote?

It's verse 28-29: "Therefore let us be grateful for receiving for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe, for God is a consuming fire"

Here's an alternative translation:

"... thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverent fear and fear, because God is a consuming fire."

That is, believers ought to worship God and heed his word with fear, lest they refuse him and he consumes them.


For the believer, Godly fear keeps them on the right track with God (4:1). It's an expression of trust and obedience for those in the right relationship with God (Jesus is commended for it, 5:7; Noah models it in the faith chapter 11:7).

It's interesting to see the three commands against apostasy in chapter 4: Let us fear (4:1), strive (4:11), and with confidence draw near to the throne of grace. Weird mix of attitudes, affections and proactivity, huh?


From Bruce's Hebrews commentary (378):

The living God to whom believers come is indeed the refuge and strength of His people, the intimacy of their covenant-union with Him is not unmixed with awe before His pure holiness.

(I've gotten away from the point now. It's in the middle, somewhere.)

Unknown said...

Hon. Good on you for bring your essay to bear on how we must fight for Christ now and in the future!

Those three ideas you put together are BRILLIANT.

1. fear (4:1),
2. strive (4:11),
3. and with confidence draw near to the throne of grace.

Much to think about....